Here we go again....

Tonight the CBS Evening "News" [sic] ran a story about the apparently
drunk pilot idiot who busted Philadelphia's airspace, buzzed a variety
of things and apparently was able to land his Cherokee despite be
hammered.

The CBS twist on the story? "We told you about the dangers posed by so
called general aviation...now this..."
They asked, "why weren't air force fighters scrambled to intercept and
shoot down this plane?"

Hmmmm. OK, then why don't we just get the Army to shoot anyone
suspected of drunk driving?

Frigging morons.

David H
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying forum:
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:26:47 -0800, David H > wrote:

>Here we go again....
>
>Tonight the CBS Evening "News" [sic] ran a story about the apparently
>drunk pilot idiot who busted Philadelphia's airspace, buzzed a variety
>of things and apparently was able to land his Cherokee despite be
>hammered.
>
>The CBS twist on the story? "We told you about the dangers posed by so
>called general aviation...now this..."
>They asked, "why weren't air force fighters scrambled to intercept and
>shoot down this plane?"
>
>Hmmmm. OK, then why don't we just get the Army to shoot anyone
>suspected of drunk driving?
>
>Frigging morons.
>
>David H
>Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying forum:
>http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying


If the plane was shot down there'd probly have been alot of damage and
at least one fatality from the impact. Doesn't the general public have
any critical thinking skills whatsoever?

Yes, they do. The media, however, doesn't.

> If the plane was shot down there'd probly have been alot of damage and
> at least one fatality from the impact. Doesn't the general public have
> any critical thinking skills whatsoever?

My reply:

Your hysterical anti-general aviation piece was bad enough. Now I understand
that you are demanding to know why the drunken pilot in Philadelphia was not
shot down by the military. Do you really think that is an appropriate
response? Should drunk drivers be shot by state troopers on sight? Are you
now recommending the death penalty for any form of drunkenness? Without
trial? Or are you just interested in shooting pilots? Were you not concerned
about the safety of innocent bystanders on the ground that might be hit by
the flaming wreckage or spent anti-aircraft munitions? What if the pilot had
had his family on board?



I can see your news story now: "Bush administration orders airplane with
family of four on board shot down. Husband, wife, and two small children
killed. See our full report on this outrage at 11." I sure bet that you
would not be reminding viewers that this was your idea in the first place.



Maybe you would like to shoot school children or mothers, too. Who else
would you like to shoot? Republicans? Baptists? Anybody that Dan Rather does
not like?



Your network has gone so far off the deep end that I will never watch it
again. Ever. In fact, I will probably disconnect my cable service and maybe
even give my TV away.



You have so outraged the aviation community with these broadcasts that I
suspect that tens of thousands of pilots feel the way I do. Although I would
not condone it, I would not be surprised if there is violence as a result of
your irresponsible reporting. You have harmed not only yourselves, but have
brought the integrity of the entire news reporting industry into question.



Whoever made this report should be fired immediately and a public apology
given.

Ok I thought of something else. Does anyone know if celebrity pilots
like Travolta and Ford are at all active on these issues? You'd think
Travolta would have something to say given his airport living
arrangements. Then the general public might actually listen.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:26:47 -0800, David H > wrote:

>Here we go again....
>
>Tonight the CBS Evening "News" [sic] ran a story about the apparently
>drunk pilot idiot who busted Philadelphia's airspace, buzzed a variety
>of things and apparently was able to land his Cherokee despite be
>hammered.
>
>The CBS twist on the story? "We told you about the dangers posed by so
>called general aviation...now this..."
>They asked, "why weren't air force fighters scrambled to intercept and
>shoot down this plane?"

Can you imagine the damage on the ground caused by an F-16 or 15
shooting down a low flying small plane over a populated area?
That would be a disaster no amount of spin could change. The public
outcry could easily cripple valid air patrols.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
>Hmmmm. OK, then why don't we just get the Army to shoot anyone
>suspected of drunk driving?
>
>Frigging morons.
>
>David H
>Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying forum:
>http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying

Not to mention the dozens of pilots that actually work for the media such as
Bob Arnot and Hugh Downs, they must be rolling their eyes.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"Jordan" > wrote in message
...
> Ok I thought of something else. Does anyone know if celebrity pilots
> like Travolta and Ford are at all active on these issues? You'd think
> Travolta would have something to say given his airport living
> arrangements. Then the general public might actually listen.

I think our liberal media is chastising the government for not doing
anything so they can chastise them again if they do.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:26:47 -0800, David H > wrote:
>
> >Here we go again....
> >
> >Tonight the CBS Evening "News" [sic] ran a story about the apparently
> >drunk pilot idiot who busted Philadelphia's airspace, buzzed a variety
> >of things and apparently was able to land his Cherokee despite be
> >hammered.
> >
> >The CBS twist on the story? "We told you about the dangers posed by so
> >called general aviation...now this..."
> >They asked, "why weren't air force fighters scrambled to intercept and
> >shoot down this plane?"
>
> Can you imagine the damage on the ground caused by an F-16 or 15
> shooting down a low flying small plane over a populated area?
> That would be a disaster no amount of spin could change. The public
> outcry could easily cripple valid air patrols.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
> >
> >Hmmmm. OK, then why don't we just get the Army to shoot anyone
> >suspected of drunk driving?
> >
> >Frigging morons.
> >
> >David H
> >Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
> >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying forum:
> >http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying
>

More importantly, how much does it cost to fly a sortie of F-16s and
deliver a payload to destroy a Cherokee.

The rocket that they would shoot at it would cost about 10x what the
Cherokee does!

Roger Halstead > wrote in
:

> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:26:47 -0800, David H > wrote:
>
>>Here we go again....
>>
>>Tonight the CBS Evening "News" [sic] ran a story about the apparently
>>drunk pilot idiot who busted Philadelphia's airspace, buzzed a variety
>>of things and apparently was able to land his Cherokee despite be
>>hammered.
>>
>>The CBS twist on the story? "We told you about the dangers posed by so
>>called general aviation...now this..."
>>They asked, "why weren't air force fighters scrambled to intercept and
>>shoot down this plane?"
>
> Can you imagine the damage on the ground caused by an F-16 or 15
> shooting down a low flying small plane over a populated area?
> That would be a disaster no amount of spin could change. The public
> outcry could easily cripple valid air patrols.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>>
>>Hmmmm. OK, then why don't we just get the Army to shoot anyone
>>suspected of drunk driving?
>>
>>Frigging morons.
>>
>>David H
>>Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying forum:
>>http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying
>
>

I don't remember when it was or what the subject was, but I do remember a
few years ago seeing Arnot say something like: "The information in our
report last week was just totally wrong".

And I think a lot of reporters will change their tune when they realize that
if all of this keeps up they'll be driving through the boondocks instead of
riding a nice Part 135 air taxi!

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> Not to mention the dozens of pilots that actually work for the media such
as
> Bob Arnot and Hugh Downs, they must be rolling their eyes.
> --
> Jim Burns III
>
> Remove "nospam" to reply
>
> "Jordan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ok I thought of something else. Does anyone know if celebrity pilots
> > like Travolta and Ford are at all active on these issues? You'd think
> > Travolta would have something to say given his airport living
> > arrangements. Then the general public might actually listen.
>
>

"Jordan" wrote:
>You'd think Travolta would have something to say

God spare us. I hope no one thinks to send a crew out to interview him.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

"Jim" wrote:
> I think our liberal media is chastising the government for not
> doing anything so they can chastise them again if they do.

It's got nothing to do with liberal or conservative: Fox was shrieking
as loud as the rest.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

"Jordan" > wrote in message
...
> Ok I thought of something else. Does anyone know if celebrity pilots
> like Travolta and Ford are at all active on these issues? You'd think
> Travolta would have something to say given his airport living
> arrangements. Then the general public might actually listen.

If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too brain dead
to endure and is finished.

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> "Jim" wrote:
> > I think our liberal media is chastising the government for not
> > doing anything so they can chastise them again if they do.
>
> It's got nothing to do with liberal or conservative: Fox was shrieking
> as loud as the rest.

Dan, Your capacity for critical thinking and differentiation is
remarkable....when it suits your preconceived notions.

"Paul Folbrecht" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Yes, they do. The media, however, doesn't.
>
> > If the plane was shot down there'd probly have been alot of damage and
> > at least one fatality from the impact. Doesn't the general public have
> > any critical thinking skills whatsoever?

The same general public that, all glassy eyed, watches the media?

"Jordan" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:26:47 -0800, David H > wrote:
> >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying forum:
> >http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying
>
>
> If the plane was shot down there'd probly have been alot of damage and
> at least one fatality from the impact. Doesn't the general public have
> any critical thinking skills whatsoever?

If they do they hide it very well.

"David H" > wrote in message
...
> They asked, "why weren't air force fighters scrambled to intercept and
> shoot down this plane?"


These people are nuts. There is a reason why we try to keep the armed
forces from police duties in this country. Just what kind of government is
CBS trying to push? What is their real agenda?

Y'All, over thirty years ago I taught such a pilot a bit past solo. He
stole a club plane and took a bottle up with him while he flew all over the
S.F. Bay Area while telling ATC
what he was doing.. He passed out. Fortunately, or otherwise, the aircraft
was trimmed for \a slight climb and headed nearly north.

He crashed in the Nevada desert with no injury to the 'pilot' but destroyed
the aircraft. What a waste of instruction. Good or otherwise. A war story
for every situation.

While I've got you attention. I had a 'new' experience this
afternoon when of the final landing of a pre-solo lesson the engine died on
the runway.

I rolled clear of the runway and told tower we had an engine failure. Then
I noted that the mixture was all the way out. The Student had 'leaned the
mixture' as a part
of his post landing checklist.

I wonder if I'll live long enough to have happen to me, everything that can
happen?
Gene

"Gene Whitt" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Y'All, over thirty years ago I taught such a pilot a bit past solo. He
> stole a club plane and took a bottle up with him while he flew all over
the
> S.F. Bay Area while telling ATC
> what he was doing.. He passed out. Fortunately, or otherwise, the
aircraft
> was trimmed for \a slight climb and headed nearly north.
>
> He crashed in the Nevada desert with no injury to the 'pilot' but
destroyed
> the aircraft. What a waste of instruction. Good or otherwise. A war
story
> for every situation.
>
> While I've got you attention. I had a 'new' experience this
> afternoon when of the final landing of a pre-solo lesson the engine died
on
> the runway.
>
> I rolled clear of the runway and told tower we had an engine failure.
Then
> I noted that the mixture was all the way out. The Student had 'leaned the
> mixture' as a part
> of his post landing checklist.
>
> I wonder if I'll live long enough to have happen to me, everything that
can
> happen?
> Gene

One of my CFIs tells the story of instructing a student to "throttle back"
to begin slow flight maneuvers. Instead, the student pulled the mixture,
killing the engine. When the student realized what he had done, he pleaded
with the instructor, "your plane, your plane!" The CFI calmly replied,
"this aircraft was working when I handed it over to you. I don't want it
back now; it's not working!"

"Joe Johnson" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Gene Whitt" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Y'All, over thirty years ago I taught such a pilot a bit past solo. He
> > stole a club plane and took a bottle up with him while he flew all over
> the
> > S.F. Bay Area while telling ATC
> > what he was doing.. He passed out. Fortunately, or otherwise, the
> aircraft
> > was trimmed for \a slight climb and headed nearly north.
> >
> > He crashed in the Nevada desert with no injury to the 'pilot' but
> destroyed
> > the aircraft. What a waste of instruction. Good or otherwise. A war
> story
> > for every situation.
> >
> > While I've got you attention. I had a 'new' experience this
> > afternoon when of the final landing of a pre-solo lesson the engine died
> on
> > the runway.
> >
> > I rolled clear of the runway and told tower we had an engine failure.
> Then
> > I noted that the mixture was all the way out. The Student had 'leaned
the
> > mixture' as a part
> > of his post landing checklist.
> >
> > I wonder if I'll live long enough to have happen to me, everything that
> can
> > happen?
> > Gene
>
> One of my CFIs tells the story of instructing a student to "throttle back"
> to begin slow flight maneuvers. Instead, the student pulled the mixture,
> killing the engine. When the student realized what he had done, he
pleaded
> with the instructor, "your plane, your plane!" The CFI calmly replied,
> "this aircraft was working when I handed it over to you. I don't want it
> back now; it's not working!"
>

Heh,heh
Sounds like something my instructor would have said ;-)

"Nomen Nescio" ]> wrote in message
...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: "Tom Sixkiller" >
>
> >"Jordan" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Ok I thought of something else. Does anyone know if celebrity pilots
> >> like Travolta and Ford are at all active on these issues? You'd think
> >> Travolta would have something to say given his airport living
> >> arrangements. Then the general public might actually listen.
> >
> >If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too brain
dead
> >to endure and is finished.
>
> Our nation is too brain dead to endure and is finished.
>
It's not too brain dead, I think, but a couple generations of our public
indoctrination...um, "education" system has totally obliterated the capacity
for critical thinking.

See also: "Post Modernism".

Yes, you have a point. Way too many swallow just about everything they
see hook, line, & sinker. But the media is the country is certainly
guilty of fostering ignorance, playing always to the lowest common
denominator, etc. They're masters at bringing out the worst in the masses.

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

> "Paul Folbrecht" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
>>Yes, they do. The media, however, doesn't.
>>
>>
>>>If the plane was shot down there'd probly have been alot of damage and
>>>at least one fatality from the impact. Doesn't the general public have
>>>any critical thinking skills whatsoever?
>
>
> The same general public that, all glassy eyed, watches the media?
>
>

"Paul Folbrecht" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Yes, you have a point. Way too many swallow just about everything they
> see hook, line, & sinker. But the media is the country is certainly
> guilty of fostering ignorance, playing always to the lowest common
> denominator, etc. They're masters at bringing out the worst in the
masses.
>

See my response about our public "education" system.

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in
:

>
> "Jordan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too brain
> dead to endure and is finished.

That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities make
$100,000 an episode...

"Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in
.net:

> "David H" > wrote in message
> ...
>> They asked, "why weren't air force fighters scrambled to intercept and
>> shoot down this plane?"
>
> These people are nuts. There is a reason why we try to keep the armed
> forces from police duties in this country. Just what kind of
> government is CBS trying to push? What is their real agenda?

Ratings... Nothing but Ratings...

Judah wrote:
>
> That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities make
> $100,000 an episode...

Well, teachers haven't made that little in a LLLOOONNNGGG time! Around here, the
going rate is around 50K for substitutes and over 70K to start for regulars. By
comparison, starting pay for a software developer with an MS is about 50K.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

I hear they have been running that thing over and over.


"Judah" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in
> .net:
>
> > "David H" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> They asked, "why weren't air force fighters scrambled to intercept and
> >> shoot down this plane?"
> >
> > These people are nuts. There is a reason why we try to keep the armed
> > forces from police duties in this country. Just what kind of
> > government is CBS trying to push? What is their real agenda?
>
> Ratings... Nothing but Ratings...

"Judah" > wrote in message
...
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Jordan" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too brain
> > dead to endure and is finished.
>
> That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities make
> $100,000 an episode...

Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they don't
know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further, even
those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and grasps
information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of "education" is
now BY ROTE.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:43:26 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> wrote:

>Well, teachers haven't made that little in a LLLOOONNNGGG time! Around here, the
>going rate is around 50K for substitutes and over 70K to start for regulars. By
>comparison, starting pay for a software developer with an MS is about 50K.

Is that 70K real dollars or annualized based on 52.5 for nine months?

Don

Don Tuite wrote:
>
> Is that 70K real dollars or annualized based on 52.5 for nine months?

That's $70,000 per year.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

Hey listen... Compared to CBS News, my little hyperbolic illustration was
totally within limits! :)

Besides, even if they make $50K a year, that still pales in comparison to
$100k per episode or per game.


"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in
:

>
>
> Judah wrote:
>>
>> That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities
>> make $100,000 an episode...
>
> Well, teachers haven't made that little in a LLLOOONNNGGG time! Around
> here, the going rate is around 50K for substitutes and over 70K to
> start for regulars. By comparison, starting pay for a software
> developer with an MS is about 50K.
>
> George Patterson
> Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually
> said is "Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 02:19:54 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> wrote:

>
>
>Don Tuite wrote:
>>
>> Is that 70K real dollars or annualized based on 52.5 for nine months?
>
>That's $70,000 per year.

Hummmmm... That's interesting....

Don
(Who's read too many pro-forma financial predictions.)

"Judah" > wrote in message
...
> Hey listen... Compared to CBS News, my little hyperbolic illustration was
> totally within limits! :)
>
> Besides, even if they make $50K a year, that still pales in comparison to
> $100k per episode or per game.
>
Jealous?

Howyd!

In article >,
Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
>
>"Judah" > wrote in message
...
>> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> >
>> > "Jordan" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >
>> > If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too brain
>> > dead to endure and is finished.
>>
>> That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities make
>> $100,000 an episode...
>
>Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they don't
>know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further, even
>those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and grasps
>information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of "education" is
>now BY ROTE.
>
Bull****. You don't even bother to slip in a weasely "most"; you simply
tar all teachers with your calumny.

I won't deny that there are a significant number of teachers whose ability
to teach is questionable, but many teachers actually give a damn about their
students, doing their best to *teach*. Oh, and "rote learning" is not so
nearly ubiquitous as you would claim.

Your tirade is so full of manure that it is laughable -- or would be if
you weren't expressing a range of opinions that are painfully common.

yours,
Michael



--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

Howdy!

In article >,
Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
>
>"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>> "Jim" wrote:
>> > I think our liberal media is chastising the government for not
>> > doing anything so they can chastise them again if they do.
>>
>> It's got nothing to do with liberal or conservative: Fox was shrieking
>> as loud as the rest.
>
>Dan, Your capacity for critical thinking and differentiation is
>remarkable....when it suits your preconceived notions.
>
Boy isn't that the pot calling the kettle black, Mr. Teachers-are-
worthless-pieces-of-****. I suppose your opinion here is one of an
expert in the field.

yours,
Michael


--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

"Michael Houghton" > wrote in message
...
> Howyd!
>
> In article >,
> Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
> >
> >"Judah" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in
> >> :
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "Jordan" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >
> >> > If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too
brain
> >> > dead to endure and is finished.
> >>
> >> That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities
make
> >> $100,000 an episode...
> >
> >Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they don't
> >know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further, even
> >those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and grasps
> >information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of "education"
is
> >now BY ROTE.
> >
> Bull****. You don't even bother to slip in a weasely "most"; you simply
> tar all teachers with your calumny.

Well, if in sending my kids to public schools all these years (they're all
in or past college now) I'd seen even ONE that comprehended HOW the young
minds grasps knowledge I'd say "most". That's not been me experience.

>
> I won't deny that there are a significant number of teachers whose ability
> to teach is questionable, but many teachers actually give a damn about
their
> students, doing their best to *teach*. Oh, and "rote learning" is not so
> nearly ubiquitous as you would claim.

"Giving a damn" is completely worthless if they don't know _HOW_ it works.

> Your tirade is so full of manure that it is laughable -- or would be if
> you weren't expressing a range of opinions that are painfully common.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

>
> yours,
> Michael
>
>

Best,

Tom

"Michael Houghton" > wrote in message
...
> Howdy!
>
> In article >,
> Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
> >
> >"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Jim" wrote:
> >> > I think our liberal media is chastising the government for not
> >> > doing anything so they can chastise them again if they do.
> >>
> >> It's got nothing to do with liberal or conservative: Fox was shrieking
> >> as loud as the rest.
> >
> >Dan, Your capacity for critical thinking and differentiation is
> >remarkable....when it suits your preconceived notions.
> >
> Boy isn't that the pot calling the kettle black, Mr. Teachers-are-
> worthless-pieces-of-****. I suppose your opinion here is one of an
> expert in the field.

You just validated my position. Thanks!!

Absolutely.

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in
:

>
> "Judah" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hey listen... Compared to CBS News, my little hyperbolic illustration
>> was totally within limits! :)
>>
>> Besides, even if they make $50K a year, that still pales in comparison
>> to $100k per episode or per game.
>>
> Jealous?
>
>
>

My kids are just starting in school. My son is in 3rd grade and my daughter
will start Kindergarden next fall.

Please advise on how I can ensure that my children grasp the knowledge
presented to them.

Thanks.

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in
:

>
> "Michael Houghton" > wrote in message
> ...
<snip>
> Well, if in sending my kids to public schools all these years (they're
> all in or past college now) I'd seen even ONE that comprehended HOW the
> young minds grasps knowledge I'd say "most". That's not been me
> experience.
>
>>
>> I won't deny that there are a significant number of teachers whose
>> ability to teach is questionable, but many teachers actually give a
>> damn about their students, doing their best to *teach*. Oh, and "rote
>> learning" is not so nearly ubiquitous as you would claim.
>
> "Giving a damn" is completely worthless if they don't know _HOW_ it
> works.
>
>> Your tirade is so full of manure that it is laughable -- or would be
>> if you weren't expressing a range of opinions that are painfully
>> common.
>
> You don't have a clue what you're talking about.
>
>>
>> yours,
>> Michael
>>
>>
>
> Best,
>
> Tom
>
>
>

"Judah" > wrote in message
...
> My kids are just starting in school. My son is in 3rd grade and my
daughter
> will start Kindergarden next fall.
>
> Please advise on how I can ensure that my children grasp the knowledge
> presented to them.
>
1) Avoid public schools
2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method
3) Find some good material about human epistemology
4) Find some good works on critical thinking
5) Find some good works about abstract thinking and concept formation
(note: this teaches children to make associations, rather then just
perform memorization)

There is more, but this should hold you for a year or so. Note, too, that
very little of this material is found in the conventional literature of
education.

If you need some sources, leave you email address.

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message ...

> 2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method

So you can know why you want to avoid it.


> 5) Find some good works about abstract thinking and concept formation
> (note: this teaches children to make associations, rather then just
> perform memorization)

Also note that the ability to think abstractly is a developmental stage that
typcially happens rather late. Trying to cram abstract thinking into kids
who aren't developmentally ready for it isn't any better than rote learning.

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> > 2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method
>
> So you can know why you want to avoid it.

And why is that?

>
>
> > 5) Find some good works about abstract thinking and concept formation
> > (note: this teaches children to make associations, rather then just
> > perform memorization)
>
> Also note that the ability to think abstractly is a developmental stage
that
> typcially happens rather late.

Kids are good at forming concepts from the time they're about two or three.
So how do _you_ determine when they're ready?

> Trying to cram abstract thinking into kids
> who aren't developmentally ready for it isn't any better than rote
learning.

If they're ready for learning (other than potty training and the like) they
can start with easy concepts.

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> Well, if in sending my kids to public schools all these years (they're all
> in or past college now) I'd seen even ONE that comprehended HOW the young
> minds grasps knowledge I'd say "most". That's not been me experience.
>

I don't know about that. I graduated from a public school and went to MIT
and did very well there. Both my kids went to public school and while not
all there teachers were great, most of them were. The problem now is not
the teachers, many of whom have a huge amount of experience and good ability
to teach, but the increasing reliance on endless series of tests to satisfy
federal and state requirements. Test scores are the Holy Grail and to get
good scores on the tests requires much more of the rote learning you don't
like.

Instead of knocking public education why don't you get involved and make a
difference?

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> 1) Avoid public schools

The education a child gets in school is more a function of the child than
the school.

> 2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method

Some kids do better with this, some worse.

> 3) Find some good material about human epistemology
> 4) Find some good works on critical thinking
> 5) Find some good works about abstract thinking and concept formation

Keeping interested, involved, and supportive of your children and their
education is always a good thing.

"Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > 1) Avoid public schools
>
> The education a child gets in school is more a function of the child than
> the school.
>
> > 2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method
>
> Some kids do better with this, some worse.

Since it is basic fundemantals, why would some do worse?

>
> > 3) Find some good material about human epistemology
> > 4) Find some good works on critical thinking
> > 5) Find some good works about abstract thinking and concept formation
>
> Keeping interested, involved, and supportive of your children and their
> education is always a good thing.

And teaching them to think for themselves and not be beholden to any agency.

I've stayed out of this so far, but....
I'd say the biggest determination of a successful
education is the involvement of the parent(s). Next comes
the child themselves and the type of school is last. (There
are good and bad teachers in all kinds of schools.)

My 'credentials' are purely to have raised two sons, educated
through the public school system. One of which now has
dual BS degrees and the other is about to get his Phd from
Emory Univ. That, and a lot of observing why some
children had problems and others did not....

Mike




Peter Gottlieb wrote:
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
>>1) Avoid public schools
>
>
> The education a child gets in school is more a function of the child than
> the school.
>
>
>>2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method
>
>
> Some kids do better with this, some worse.
>
>
>>3) Find some good material about human epistemology
>>4) Find some good works on critical thinking
>>5) Find some good works about abstract thinking and concept formation
>
>
> Keeping interested, involved, and supportive of your children and their
> education is always a good thing.
>
>

"Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Well, if in sending my kids to public schools all these years (they're
all
> > in or past college now) I'd seen even ONE that comprehended HOW the
young
> > minds grasps knowledge I'd say "most". That's not been me experience.
> >
>
> I don't know about that. I graduated from a public school and went to MIT
> and did very well there. Both my kids went to public school and while not
> all there teachers were great, most of them were.

How so were they great or not so great?

> The problem now is not
> the teachers, many of whom have a huge amount of experience and good
ability
> to teach,

And the point is that now matter how much they like to terach or how much
_desire_ they have, they still don't know HOW the human mind, especially in
children, grasps data nd makes sense of it.

> but the increasing reliance on endless series of tests to satisfy
> federal and state requirements. Test scores are the Holy Grail and to get
> good scores on the tests requires much more of the rote learning you don't
> like.

And that's the problem. If you wish to raise automatons and Jugen, that's
fine. I hope you aspire more highly with YOUR kids.

>
> Instead of knocking public education why don't you get involved and make a
> difference?

I am...right here. In case you haven't figured it out, public education, by
its very basis, it doomed.

"Mike H" > wrote in message
. ..
> I've stayed out of this so far, but....
> I'd say the biggest determination of a successful
> education is the involvement of the parent(s).

That helps, but, for example, learning to fly will go no where if your
instructor doesn;t know what makes and airplane fly.


>Next comes
> the child themselves and the type of school is last. (There
> are good and bad teachers in all kinds of schools.)

Again...the basis of human learning and knowledge has not been a part of the
schools of education (other than pragmatic guessing games with the kids a
guinna pigs) for a couple generations.

>
> My 'credentials' are purely to have raised two sons, educated
> through the public school system. One of which now has
> dual BS degrees and the other is about to get his Phd from
> Emory Univ. That, and a lot of observing why some
> children had problems and others did not....

Have you ever notice what's referred to as the "educated idiot"? I'm sure we
all have. Ever wonder why that is?

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > > 2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method
> >
> > Some kids do better with this, some worse.
>
> Since it is basic fundemantals, why would some do worse?

I don't know.

> > Keeping interested, involved, and supportive of your children and their
> > education is always a good thing.
>
> And teaching them to think for themselves and not be beholden to any
agency.
>

And still be respectful and be able to work with said agancy. You must
learn to follow before you can learn to lead.

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> How so were they great or not so great?

Ah, flexibility is a lot of it. That is, being able to get a wide range of
kids to grasp and enjoy the material.

> And the point is that now matter how much they like to terach or how much
> _desire_ they have, they still don't know HOW the human mind, especially
in
> children, grasps data nd makes sense of it.

Children are all different. One size does not fit all.

>
> > but the increasing reliance on endless series of tests to satisfy
> > federal and state requirements. Test scores are the Holy Grail and to
get
> > good scores on the tests requires much more of the rote learning you
don't
> > like.
>
> And that's the problem. If you wish to raise automatons and Jugen, that's
> fine. I hope you aspire more highly with YOUR kids.

I am not sure what your argument is here.

> I am...right here. In case you haven't figured it out, public education,
by
> its very basis, it doomed.

I disagree. But I respect your opinion.

"Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
et...
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >
> > > > 2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method
> > >
> > > Some kids do better with this, some worse.
> >
> > Since it is basic fundemantals, why would some do worse?
>
> I don't know.
>
> > > Keeping interested, involved, and supportive of your children and
their
> > > education is always a good thing.
> >
> > And teaching them to think for themselves and not be beholden to any
> agency.
> >
>
> And still be respectful and be able to work with said agancy. You must
> learn to follow before you can learn to lead.

One has noting to do with the other. You may be thinking of "One must learn
ot follow orders before one can command".

Command and leadership are not necessarily the same. In the same vein, one
can command obedience, but not respect...that must be earned.





>
>

"Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > How so were they great or not so great?
>
> Ah, flexibility is a lot of it. That is, being able to get a wide range
of
> kids to grasp and enjoy the material.
>
> > And the point is that now matter how much they like to terach or how
much
> > _desire_ they have, they still don't know HOW the human mind, especially
> in
> > children, grasps data nd makes sense of it.
>
> Children are all different. One size does not fit all.

How they learn specific skills, and how they learn to conceptualize will
likely be different, but that in no way means they can escape learning the
trait the differs humans from other animals.

> the aircraft. What a waste of instruction. Good or otherwise. A war story
> for every situation.

That's you, all right, Gene! Thanks again for sharing them all!

> I wonder if I'll live long enough to have happen to me, everything that can
> happen?

Sooner or later one of those "things that can happen" may be "one of
those things that makes you dead" and thus the last "thing" you're
concerned with. :-)

But I for one hope you live to see 160.

> Gene
>
>

That's the point dufuss, its out of control so folks don't bother to get
technical about the very very few. When things are so screwed up and to the
extreme that our system is nothing more than government learning centers,
who give a crap about the very few. They don't matter at this point. Do
the math then decide when to use your favorite ancient word phrases that
most of us would rather frequent at some engineers annual meeting.

huh?

what basis are those claims made by?

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Judah" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> > >
> > > "Jordan" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >
> > > If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too brain
> > > dead to endure and is finished.
> >
> > That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities
make
> > $100,000 an episode...
>
> Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they don't
> know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further, even
> those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and grasps
> information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of "education" is
> now BY ROTE.
>
>
>

That's the point dufuss, its out of control so folks don't bother to get
technical about the very very few. When things are so screwed up and to the
extreme that our system is nothing more than government learning centers,
who give a crap about the very few. They don't matter at this point. Do
the math then decide when to use your favorite ancient word phrases that
most of us would rather frequent at some engineers annual meeting.





"Michael Houghton" > wrote in message
...
> Howdy!
>
> In article >,
> Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
> >
> >"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Jim" wrote:
> >> > I think our liberal media is chastising the government for not
> >> > doing anything so they can chastise them again if they do.
> >>
> >> It's got nothing to do with liberal or conservative: Fox was shrieking
> >> as loud as the rest.
> >
> >Dan, Your capacity for critical thinking and differentiation is
> >remarkable....when it suits your preconceived notions.
> >
> Boy isn't that the pot calling the kettle black, Mr. Teachers-are-
> worthless-pieces-of-****. I suppose your opinion here is one of an
> expert in the field.
>
> yours,
> Michael
>
>
> --
> Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
> | White Wolf and the Phoenix
> Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
> | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

Howdy!

In article >,
Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
>
>"Michael Houghton" > wrote in message
...
>> Howyd!
>>
>> In article >,
>> Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
>> >
>> >"Judah" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in
>> >> :
>> >>
[snip]
>> >
>> >Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they don't
>> >know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further, even
>> >those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and grasps
>> >information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of "education"
>is
>> >now BY ROTE.
>> >
>> Bull****. You don't even bother to slip in a weasely "most"; you simply
>> tar all teachers with your calumny.
>
>Well, if in sending my kids to public schools all these years (they're all
>in or past college now) I'd seen even ONE that comprehended HOW the young
>minds grasps knowledge I'd say "most". That's not been me experience.

....so on the basis of your limited sample, you assert a universal condition.
As I said, "bull****". You seem to suggest, as well, that children all learn
the same way. More bogon flux. If they all learned the same way, wouldn't you
think there would be greater uniformity in educational approaches? Instead,
we have Montessori (works for some, but not for others), boot camps, etc.

You show no grasp of the lameness of your claim.
>
>>
>> I won't deny that there are a significant number of teachers whose ability
>> to teach is questionable, but many teachers actually give a damn about
>their
>> students, doing their best to *teach*. Oh, and "rote learning" is not so
>> nearly ubiquitous as you would claim.
>
>"Giving a damn" is completely worthless if they don't know _HOW_ it works.

Huh?
>
>> Your tirade is so full of manure that it is laughable -- or would be if
>> you weren't expressing a range of opinions that are painfully common.
>
>You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Is that the best you can come up with? You don't offer meaningful substance
to your outlandish claims. You are just blathering.

yours,
Michael


--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

Howdy!

In article >, > wrote:
>That's the point dufuss, its out of control so folks don't bother to get
>technical about the very very few. When things are so screwed up and to the
>extreme that our system is nothing more than government learning centers,
>who give a crap about the very few. They don't matter at this point. Do
>the math then decide when to use your favorite ancient word phrases that
>most of us would rather frequent at some engineers annual meeting.

Excuse me. Did I use words you don't understand? Words with more than one
syllable? Did you reply to the wrong post? I can't relate your incomprehensible
tirade to what I wrote.

yours,
Michael
--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:04:48 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller" >
wrote:

>
>"Mike H" > wrote in message
. ..
>> I've stayed out of this so far, but....
>> I'd say the biggest determination of a successful
>> education is the involvement of the parent(s).
>
>That helps, but, for example, learning to fly will go no where if your
>instructor doesn;t know what makes and airplane fly.
>
>
>>Next comes
>> the child themselves and the type of school is last. (There
>> are good and bad teachers in all kinds of schools.)
>
>Again...the basis of human learning and knowledge has not been a part of the
>schools of education (other than pragmatic guessing games with the kids a
>guinna pigs) for a couple generations.
>
>>
>> My 'credentials' are purely to have raised two sons, educated
>> through the public school system. One of which now has
>> dual BS degrees and the other is about to get his Phd from
>> Emory Univ. That, and a lot of observing why some
>> children had problems and others did not....
>
>Have you ever notice what's referred to as the "educated idiot"? I'm sure we
>all have. Ever wonder why that is?

Tom, I've stayed out of this so far because you always seem to be on
the edge when it comes to "discussion", and most responses always seem
to degenerate to name calling. But like some others in this group,
I'm married to a career teacher and this gives us an insight that
should be beneficial to this discussion. Guess what the starting
salary for teachers is up here in Vermont?: about $18,000 - $20,000.

Mike has it absolutely correct in that the single greatest influence
in the development and education of the child is not the teacher or
the school, it's the parents.

If the parents do not interact with the child, or disparage the school
in front of them, or "go to bat" for the child when he/she misbehaves
in school rather than make the attempt to correct the behavior that
caused the disruption in the first place (MY Johnny wouldn't beat up
anyone) then there is no hope for that child to gain a viable
education in that school no matter who is teaching, and that kid is
going to have problems throughout school.

In addition, my wife used to meet with parents and children to see if
they are ready to enter Kindergarten. How was that determined? It
had to do with the childs development, both mentally and physically.
If the parent forces the issue and demands that the child enter before
he/she is ready, bad things happen. The child ends up constantly
behind everyone else because they simply aren't ready to learn at the
proper level yet. Again, it doesn't matter who is teaching, God
wouldn't make a difference if the child just isn't developmentally
ready to learn.

This goes for the upper grades too. The huge problem is that children
develop at different speeds. No two children are exactly the same and
the teacher must teach each child at his or her different level,
regardless which grade. Some teachers do this well, others don't.

The big thing you are missing with regards your diatribe against
teachers is that every single one must complete a college education.
If you complete that college education but did not major in the
education field, then you must either then take more courses in
education, or spend many years apprenticing before you become
certified. If you want a higher salary, you must further your
education. My wife has a masters in education and still makes only
about $30,000. Think about that for a minute. Teachers are tasked
with what may be the most important job on earth, teaching children so
that they have the skills to be successfull in life. Are they paid
commesurate of their responsibility?

Corky Scott

Although it's not specifically stated as a right in the US
Constitution, the right to travel freely in your own country (without
"papers"), is generally believed to be a fundamental right. The right
to travel freely is also a benchmark for a measure of freedom in all
countries. Both Nazi Germany and the Communist system required
"papers" to travel from one city to the next. I dread the day when I
land at the airport, and a uniformed officer comes up to me and says,
"papers please". It will be a major loss of a fundamental right.

Now, things ARE different in war. But we can't have "continual" war,
as the "war on terrorism" or the "cold war". I can accept temporary
restrictions during a crisis (gasoline rationing in WWII, sugar
rationing, restricted travel, blackout curtains along the east coast
etc), but not permanent or semi-permanent ones. If we are in a cold
war, sorry, we HAVE to go back to having our fundamental rights and
take some risk of a terrorist attack, which, by the way, there is no
way of preventing with complete certainty.

There has been one terroist attack on the US. And it was terrible.
4000 people lost there lives. But there are over 60,000 deaths due to
car accidents a year. Just how much freedom are you willing to give
up?

The "homeland sucurity" advocates make the argument, "but yes, we
could have a nuclear attack, wouldn't you give up your freedom to
travel for preventing such attack?" BUT their security measures don't
make such a guarantee. With the draconian travel restrictions we give
up our freedom to travel and STILL are under a threat of attack.

There are things they can do. Baggage matching, baggage scanning,
linking visa data with Social Security data etc, to keep tabs on
visitors to our country. Most of these actions limit our freedom to
travel very little. So do those things. But don't start asking me for
"papers please". We can't go there.

Could you please provide factual evidence that the system you have outlined
will make my children more successful and/or happy in life than had they
been educated otherwise?

Thanks.

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in
:

>
> "Judah" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My kids are just starting in school. My son is in 3rd grade and my
>> daughter will start Kindergarden next fall.
>>
>> Please advise on how I can ensure that my children grasp the knowledge
>> presented to them.
>>
> 1) Avoid public schools
> 2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method
> 3) Find some good material about human epistemology
> 4) Find some good works on critical thinking
> 5) Find some good works about abstract thinking and concept formation
> (note: this teaches children to make associations, rather then just
> perform memorization)
>
> There is more, but this should hold you for a year or so. Note, too,
> that very little of this material is found in the conventional
> literature of education.
>
> If you need some sources, leave you email address.

While not enumerated in the Constitution, travel is a civil right
according to the Supreme Court. The applicable decision involved a black
Army officer who was murdered while traveling through a Southern state
and established freedom to travel as a constitutionally protected right.

Dave Reinhart


Doug wrote:

> Although it's not specifically stated as a right in the US
> Constitution, the right to travel freely in your own country (without
> "papers"), is generally believed to be a fundamental right. The right
> to travel freely is also a benchmark for a measure of freedom in all
> countries. Both Nazi Germany and the Communist system required
> "papers" to travel from one city to the next. I dread the day when I
> land at the airport, and a uniformed officer comes up to me and says,
> "papers please". It will be a major loss of a fundamental right.
>

Judah > wrote in message >...
> Could you please provide factual evidence that the system you have outlined
> will make my children more successful and/or happy in life than had they
> been educated otherwise?
>
> Thanks.
>
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Judah" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> My kids are just starting in school. My son is in 3rd grade and my
> >> daughter will start Kindergarden next fall.
> >>
> >> Please advise on how I can ensure that my children grasp the knowledge
> >> presented to them.
> >>
> > 1) Avoid public schools
> > 2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method
> > 3) Find some good material about human epistemology
> > 4) Find some good works on critical thinking
> > 5) Find some good works about abstract thinking and concept formation
> > (note: this teaches children to make associations, rather then just
> > perform memorization)
> >
> > There is more, but this should hold you for a year or so. Note, too,
> > that very little of this material is found in the conventional
> > literature of education.
> >
> > If you need some sources, leave you email address.

Montessori method- God I can't believe some people still hang with
that method. Ok for the 80s but the world has moved on - but when you
are deperate or .....

"Jeb" > wrote in message
om...
> > >
> > > If you need some sources, leave your email address.
>
> Montessori method- God I can't believe some people still hang with
> that method. Ok for the 80s but the world has moved on -

Let's see:

The Prussian school model of Thomas Mann; 1840 -still in place
The Social Subjectivist education model of John Dewey; 1920 - still in place
The Look-Say rading methods; 1940's - still in place

Three disasters still going strong....but more money, more parental
involvement....

Montessori - developed in the 1920's; banned in Italy (Where it originated),
Germany and the Soviet Union (amongst others). Teaches the association
between concrete (tangible) items and the relationships to similar items.

>but when you
> are deperate or .....

So the human mind has evolved in the past 20 years?

Jeb, if you are more than 25 years old, I suggest you are obsolete and
should be converted into Soylent Green.



Sounds like the desperate (and half literate) or here is yourself.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:28:42 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller" >
wrote:


>The Look-Say rading methods; 1940's - still in place

It's spelled "reading" and most schools are teaching reading using
phonics now.

Some educational methods work well and don't need changing. Phonics
is one of those things. Schools kind of got away from it back in the
late '60's and '70's, developing something called "whole language",
which was presented as a better method without any testing actually
being done to see if it really was more effective or not. It wasn't,
and most educators now acknowledge that phonics, which is not new, is
by far the more effective method.

So just because the method may seem old doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Also, children tend to learn almost despite the method with which they
are taught. Smart kids learn. Children with attitudes, which they
inevitably pick up from their parents, often have trouble in schools.

Corky Scott

(Jeb) wrote:

>Montessori method- God I can't believe some people still hang with
>that method. Ok for the 80s but the world has moved on - but when you
>are deperate or .....

My sister has seen remarkable success with her kids in a Montessori
school. My niece is on track to enter a community college at age 15 or
so...

Rob

They appeal to the audience that their advertisers want them to appeal to.
Couldn't we get Corporate America to start pressuring these broadcasters to
raise the level of discourse? The media machine depends on the advertisers'
dollars, and therefore works for them.



"Paul Folbrecht" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Yes, you have a point. Way too many swallow just about everything they
> see hook, line, & sinker. But the media is the country is certainly
> guilty of fostering ignorance, playing always to the lowest common
> denominator, etc. They're masters at bringing out the worst in the
masses.
>
> Tom Sixkiller wrote:
>
> > "Paul Folbrecht" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> >
> >>Yes, they do. The media, however, doesn't.
> >>
> >>
> >>>If the plane was shot down there'd probly have been alot of damage and
> >>>at least one fatality from the impact. Doesn't the general public have
> >>>any critical thinking skills whatsoever?
> >
> >
> > The same general public that, all glassy eyed, watches the media?
> >
> >
>